2008-02-21 [Tickle Me Emo]: There are some international agreements in place, such as one protecting a certain species of kelp popular in Japanese cuisine that is harvested off the Alaskan coast, I believe. But still, international cooperation is woefully underemphasized (and I believe it's coho salmon... at least, it probably is if you're talking Alaskan salmon).

The concept of fish farming isn't bad, it just needs to be refined. Fish farming applies to more than just salmon. There are several species that are bred explicitly for eating, and all are susceptible to diseases that occur in that environment.
(and swordfish is actually really good to eat <.< >.>)

Well, preservatives are actually pretty bad for you, so I can understand why people would pay extra for products without them. And when people advertise using the phrase "100% organic," they probably mean that the product was farmed without any pesticides, but don't necessarily refer to byproducts of the environment (or even neighboring farms that do use pesticides).

2008-02-21 [The Monochrome Rainbow]: Organic usually just means pesticide free, but many companies extend it to mean nothing unnatural was involved in the process. no growth hormones in milk, etc etc, no preservatives. USDA/FDA has specific guidelines as to what exactly can be labeled as "organic" (I'd have to look that one up) also, many of those pesticides leave residue in the soil for many years (sometimes fifteen, twenty years or more) that may still be contaminating foods in fields that have not used pesticides for many years.

makes me wonder if the farmed fish diseases are ones that the fish naturally get in the wild, that are concentrated because of their living conditions, or are they a direct result of a captive lifestyle? Many animals have health problems only when in captivity (much of it a result of inbreeding) which is sure to be happening to some degree in the confines of fish farming ponds. Or of it is all related to the stagnance of the water, and living in ones own filth.

2008-02-21 [Tickle Me Emo]: I was under the impression that the diseases that occur in farmed fish can also be found in the wild, only exacerbated due to the conditions of the farm.

You can find out pretty much anything you want to know about organic products from this site and its links:
http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_1OB?navid=ORGANIC_CERTIFICATIO&;navtype=RT&amp;parentnav=AGRICULTURE

2008-02-21 [Byne]: Ah, I wasn't speaking against organics, as it is better for the environment, if done in a sustainable manner. My family eats a lot of organic food, and a lot of local produce whenever possible. We grow our own herbs and tomatoes in the summer.

Swordfish is good to eat. I've eaten it. It isn't until recently that I've seriously cut down on my fish intake.

And yes, I meant coho. XD

2008-02-21 [Tickle Me Emo]: My mom is pretty stingy, so organic/locally grown products... not so much. Except apples, because I live in Washington XD
Also being a Seattleite, fish is a pretty big part of my diet. It is better for you than other meats, can be cheaper, and typically tastes better. It also means I really know my salmon, so no worries, Robine :P

I'm aware that my eating habits may not directly reflect my beliefs in terms of fishing problems. I will admit I'm a hypocrite. But it's kind of like the carbon emissions from cars problem - a lot of people can't afford hybrid/electric cars, and although they're aware that their driving habits are harmful to the environment, until alternative methods become more readily available, they still have to get around!

2008-02-22 [Byne]: Ah. See, my mum is the reason I'm a proud eco-freak. 8D

I've tried to make my eating habits reflect my beliefs. I don't eat red meat, rarel ever eat bacon...I eat chicken, and will eat fish. I typically try to eat only locall caught fish....But being in Ontario, that gets hard. However, whenever I'm out in BC (where I am originally from) I eat the wild, fresh caught salmon.

I had someone try to convince me that cattle farming wasn't as evil as farming fruits and veggies. o:

And, I will say right now, that I will NEVER eat dolphin or whale. x:

2008-02-22 [The Monochrome Rainbow]: I can't say I notice a difference between organic and normal foods when I eat them, but I guess it's all in the conscience. Many of those pesticides have harmful impacts on wildlife that may not be noticed for a year or more after their use! And while we ban ones like DDT here, many countries in S. America, where we import a lot of our fruits and veggies from, have not banned them.

as far as eating meat: I'll try anything once, but I'm picky. Fish is better for you, especially smaller fish (lower mercury content) but I rarely eat anything that has been dead more than an hour, so my experiences are few and far between. If I can smell it from more than 3 feet away, it's not fresh enough. I have nothing against the consumption of fish, even shark, my issue is that they aren't being used in a sustainable manner. But that applies to everything. Trees, fossil fuels, etc.

even if we can't afford hybrid cars, I feel a lot better about driving my little two-door coupe with good gas mileage than a gas-guzzling SUV or Truck, and with the better mileage, Gas is more affordable, my tank lasts longer. That's good enough for me for now. I don't think I could afford to put gas in something that big.

There are a lot of things that need reform, and sadly I doubt we will see it in our lifetime. There are a lot of sustainable resources and alternatives that are being largely ignored, and like all new things, would require a significant investment to get them started, but that investment would recap it's cost very quickly. I'll try to dig up the article I'm thinking of.

2008-02-22 [Tickle Me Emo]: I actually don't eat that much meat in general, although I do have chicken relatively often.

The consumtion of whale always brings up the issue of Native American hunting rights. There would never be issues, however, if consumption never exceeded a species' ability to regenerate its population. It's like income and expenditure, but unfortunately people have gotten used to credit card debt, and just keep getting further and further into debt... and if you extend the metaphor, things look pretty depressing, lol

2008-02-22 [Byne]: Ah, but the issues of whales in which I speak is in regards to the Japanese and Norwegians. Who are whaling illegally, going against an international moritorium. In Australia, a group of natives view Migaloo (a white humpback whale) as a part of their culture. The Japanese whaling fleet stated that if the came across Migaloo, the would kill him.

There was a case last year where a group of hunters from a Native tribe took over 5 hours to kill a grey whale that the did not have permission to kill. These men used unethical, untraditional methods, and essentially tortured the whale. They where taken to court, and I believe the leader was charged with a felony.

I don't object to native hunting, as it is most often done for tradition, and they do not waste any part of the animal.

Monochrome, a recent stud came out in Britain about the difference between organic and non-organic foods. For fruit and veggies, the organic ones had more nutrients, while organic milk and meat had less bad fats, and more nutrients as well.

I live in South America for several years when I was youngers. And it is true, that man companies (Like Del Monte and Dole) still use banned pesticides like DDTS. In Costa Rica, for example, the pineapple plantations fire their workers every three months then rehire them, so that the company doesn't have to pay medical benefits. The pesticides in use are known carcinogens.

I tend to walk, cycle, or take public transportation whenever I can, or car pool.

And I'm heading for the Environmental Sciences for University, and I hope I can make a difference in Canada, and the world, in regards to environmental issues. :3

2008-02-22 [Byne]: Sorry for all the typos. M y key doesn't work, so I have to copy and paste it in whenever it is needed, and I often forget to do so.

2008-02-22 [The Monochrome Rainbow]: I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that organic things did have more nutrients, because pesticides are so damaging to the ecosystem as a whole. Many plants and animals are beneficial to farmers (Like ladybugs who eat aphids, and worms that fertilize the soil) pesticides just kill everything, good or bad, so a lot of things are farmed in nutrient-poor soil, and the mass farming further reduces the nutritional value. that makes a lot of sense, [Byne]

2008-02-22 [Byne]: It does. But the whole issue is that these mass farmers don't want people to find out that organic food is actually better for you.

Its like, ten years ago, when a female scientist stated and produced a report on how bad trans-fatty acids where for people. All the big companies sued her, and totally shut her down.

Same issue with fishing. People think that there is still too much of a profit on fish to cut down. Do they not realize that if the amounts of fish caught was to be reduced, they could charge more, make more money...And be able to make a profit in the future?

2008-02-22 [Tickle Me Emo]: It's all about supply and demand... the problem is that fish isn't exactly a commodity, so if the price goes too high, people won't buy it. All businesses related to the fishing industry would get really mad and suffer extensively. There's a certain point where the fishing industry would not gain a profit, and seeing how the industry has existed for a very long time, they have probably established the highest balancing point possible.

2008-02-23 [Byne]: Thats true...But talking to a lot of fishermen, I found it interesting to learn that the smaller, local fishermen abide by the regulations. They also try to make sure to only bring in male crabs for example, as you only need one male to fertilize a ton of female crabs. o:

A lot of people have the assumption that anything they could do to help the environment would have no effect. But that isn't true. Dx

2008-02-23 [Tickle Me Emo]: When you have a relatively small catch, I imagine it is easier (and more convenient) to abide by regulations. NOT that I am defending commercial fishing and its methods, I'm just pointing out reasons.

If every one person did something, no matter the size or the impact, to help the environment every day, that's billions of people across the globe doing something. Any one act would be compounded to an effect larger than the individual deeds. So if everybody shortened their shower by a minute, think of the water that could be saved.

2008-02-23 [Byne]: I switched the shower head on my shower, so I save... 120 0000 gallons of water a year, or so. Also, having a cooler shower is not only better for your skin and hair, but it conserves energy. :3

Also, birth control is having affects on fish and marine life, believe it or not. o:

2008-02-23 [Tickle Me Emo]: Frequently hotels will use water-saving showerheads in order to conserve water and thus save money :)

Birth control, huh?

2008-02-23 [The Monochrome Rainbow]: birth control? how does that work?

2008-02-24 [Byne]: As you should know, most places in the world don't have the greatest water treatment programs. In some areas, they don't even screen the water that gets pumped back into the ocean or lakes, etc.

The chemicals in birth control aren't always broken down by the person who's taking it, and those chemicals get passed out into the water system. When untreated, they can have a negative affect on a fishes breeding cycle, and the eggs they lay.

I'm sure it has a heavier affect on the mammals though. o: Its one more thing that can accumilate in their body. X;

2008-02-24 [The Monochrome Rainbow]: nice. so we're putting lots of estrogen in the water, and it's putting a damper on breeding where it's exposed.

2008-02-24 [Tickle Me Emo]: How big of a problem is that? I mean, I imagine in areas where water treatment isn't the greatest (or is nonexistent), birth control wouldn't necessarily be readily available, either...